C. Hansen Under Attack by IRS, July 10, 2003

The IRS is trying to shut down the Family Guardian website.  The event that appears to have triggered the attack is the release of the Master File (MF) Decoder software on 5/31/03.  This software was a huge hit with the tax honesty community and our server was overwhelmed with downloads following the release.  Our website volume has also gone up tremendously because of the software.

During the month preceding the release of the MF Decoder, we initiated a Beta Test program and solicited volunteers.  We also posted several preliminary versions of the User Manual and reports for the program for general public viewing during the month prior to release.  IRS must have been looking at these announcements and may even have accessed the Beta program download page, because they launched their attack on the Hansen only ten days before the release of MF Decoder.  Here is a chronology of events surrounding their attack:

  1. 5/1/03:  Master File (MF) Decoder program announced on our website as a project.  Beta test program initiated and readers of our website were invited to join the Beta test program.  15 volunteers eventually joined the program.  During the Beta program, 38 different versions of the program were released to the Beta testers and 19 versions of the User Manual were released for general public review.
  2. 5/31/03:  Master File (MF) Decoder program beta test period was completed and version 1.38 of the program was released for FREE general public use.
  3. 6/3/03:  Received an IRS Letter 725(CG) letter asking for tax returns for years 2001 and 2002.  PDF Two "one cent" tax returns requesting refunds of all taxes paid were already sent in for these two years several weeks ago to the IRS International Service Center in Philadelphia. Attached to the letter was a form 9297 asking for all books and records, including the Great IRS Hoax book and all records of "book sales".
  4. 6/19/03:  Letter received from David Gordon of the IRS San Bernardino Office stating that Hansen was being investigated for violations of IRC sections 6700, 6701, 7402, and 7408.  Attached was an IRS Form 4564 asking for books and records describing marketing and sales and promotions associated with the Family Guardian website or the We the People organization that are connected with me.
  5. 6/20/03:  Hansen sent off a FOIA request for all his IMF files from 1998 through 2002.  Hansen wanted to decode these using the MF Decoder program prior to the meeting so that he could show that the penalty assessments they were trying to collect were false and improper assessments.  The responses to these FOIA requests didn't arrive in time for the July 10, 2003 meeting.  We asked the agent arranging the meeting, Adelina Weber, if she would delay the meeting but she said no, in spite of the fact that they sent the meeting request to the wrong address.
  6. 6/21/03:  Sent a PDF responsive letter to the IRS letter of 6/3/03 stating that their investigation will be fruitless and that neither Hansen nor the Family Guardian website are involved in commercial activity of any kind.  Included a copy of the entire Family Guardian website on DVD, the entire We the People Truth in Taxation Hearings on DVD, and a copy of our Test for Federal Tax Professionals.  Specified that anything they don't refute will be admitted.  They never responded to this letter so they admitted everything.
  7. 6/26/03:  Someone called Hansen at work directly this morning at 9:30am who Hansen didn't know to ask if  he could sell them a copy of the book. They said they were calling for their boss who was out of town and that he had asked them to see if Hansen would sell them a copy of the Hoax book. It was a she and she refused to identify her name. Hansen told her it was highly unusual to get a call about such a matter at work and that no one had ever called me about it before. Hansen asked how she got his work number and she didn't know. Then Hansen said she shouldn't be calling me at work about this. Hansen also told her that the cover page of the book tells how to make her own copy at any Kinkos store and said she could do it. Hansen said he "never have and never will sell anything to anyone". We're guessing it was the secretary of the revenue agent I'm going to see next month on July 10, 2003.
  8. 7/10/03:  Informal meeting of Hansen with IRS at IRS offices in San Diego.  In attendance were four IRS revenue officers who all had administrative pocket commissions, along with one IRS attorney.  Hansen had two witnesses present and tape recorded the whole interchange.  We will be posting an MP3 recording of this meeting for all to listen to soon.  It's hilarious!  They didn't bring any of the over 70 pieces of information Hansen demanded prior to the meeting so Hansen didn't give them anything either.  Tit for tat.  Hansen told them he would follow their example and be as accountable and cooperative as they were, and they reaped exactly what they sowed so they got NOTHING.  The servant, which is them, cannot be greater or more privileged than the master, according to his religion, so Hansen can't allow them to have the upper hand according to his religion.

Just before the July 10, 2003 meeting at the IRS, we got several calls and emails from people who wanted to buy or sell our materials.  One guy emailed us claiming to be from South America and said he was a book publisher, but refused to give his real name.  He said he wanted to sell our Great IRS Hoax book in South America.  We told him to go ahead and that we didn't want any of the profits but he would have to send half of his profits to We the People Foundation (http://www.givemeliberty.org).  After we told him that, he said he wasn't interested and that "You just don't understand the book publishing business.".  The other person called the work of one of our members on 6/26/03 just after they responded to the 6/3/03 IRS letter (which provided his work number).  That interchange is described above.  A pattern is emerging from these activities.  IRS is trying to entrap us into accepting money for our materials so that they can falsely classify this website as commercial speech and shut it down. 

NEVER, NEVER, EVER will we cooperate with anyone who is trying to buy anything from us! 

The IRS employees undertaking this unwarranted persecution and entrapment are the REAL criminals and they are the ones who ought to be prosecuted by the Department of Justice for the following violations against us as a bare minimum:

  • 18 U.S.C. 241:  Conspiracy against rights.  Collusion by all five of the revenue agents to interfere with our First Amendment religious, free speech, right to assemble, and right to petition our government.
  • 18 U.S.C. 242:  Deprivation of rights under the color of law.  We have clearly and repeatedly stated that we are a church and a religious ministry and that they have no right to interfere with the free exercise of our religion.  This website, as we say on our About page, is our means of worshiping our God.
  • 18 U.S.C. 247:  Damage to religious property; obstruction of persons in the free exercise of religious beliefs
  • 18 U.S.C. 872:  Extortion by officers or employees of the United States. 
  • 18 U.S.C. 876:  Mailing threatening communications.  This includes all the threatening notices regarding levies, liens, and idiotic letters that refuse to justify why they think we are liable.
  • 18 U.S.C. 880:  Receiving the proceeds of extortion.  Any money collected from Americans through illegal enforcement actions and for which the contributors are not "liable" under the law is extorted money, and the IRS is in receipt of the proceeds of illegal extortion.
  • 18 U.S.C. 1581:  Peonage, obstructing enforcement.  They are obstructing the proper enforcement of the tax laws, which require that they respect those who choose NOT to volunteer to participate in the federal donation program identified under subtitle A of the I.R.C.
  • 18 U.S.C. 1583:  Enticement into slavery.  They are trying to enlist me to rejoin the ranks of other peons who pay taxes they aren't demonstrably liable for, which amount to slavery.
  • 18 U.S.C. 1589:  Forced labor.  Being forced to expend Hansen's personal time responding to IRS frivolous notices and pay taxes on Hansen's labor that he is not liable for.

At the 7/10/03 meeting, Hansen advised the IRS that he resented them identifying me as "an intellectual whore who would say or write anything for money".  Hansen said the Family Guardian website is and always has been a religious ministry and a First Amendment free speech website ONLY.  To suggest that we do anything related to this website or in our private life for "filthy lucre's sake" was sacrilege and an insult.  Below is a synopsis of the meeting that Hansen prepared shortly after the meeting and which Hansen sent out to all interested parties:

Meeting at IRS Office, 880 Front Street; San Diego, CA in room 3295, the IRS training room. Meeting started at 10am with the following IRS personnel in attendance:

1. Adelina D. Weber, Empl. # 33-04870, Pocket Commission WR67620A; Revenue Agent; San Diego.  Phone:  619-230-8155x366
2. Nicholas Richards, Pocket commission RC35378A, IRS attorney; San Diego.
3. Patricia Medina, Empl # 33-05300, Collection Manager; San Diego.
4. Theresa R. Stark, Empl. # 33-04957, Pocket commission WR59326A.  Revenue Agent; San Diego.
5. David Gordon, Empl. # 33-05642, Pocket Comm. WR76613A, Revenue Agent, from San Bernardino.

The IRS is trying to shut down the Family Guardian Website under 26 U.S.C. 6700, 6701, etc. I just got out of a 1.5 hour meeting with them today in the IRS office downtown. There were five agents there at the meeting and I had two witnesses. They sent me a letter yesterday stating that they were investigating me for 6700 violations and they asked me to bring a long laundry list of evidence, including the Great IRS Hoax book.

I recorded the meeting. They wanted to launch right into their questions and they refused to discuss the law. I started off by saying that I was there in good faith and that I'd take as much time off work as I need to in order to go over all my materials with them and correct anything they find inaccurate or misleading, if they could offer the kind of proof supporting their position that I have. I asked them specifically what, if anything, they found inaccurate or wrong on my website, and they couldn't identify anything. That means they are estopped from proceeding. The lawyer did most of their talking. I got down their employee numbers and pocket commissions and they all had administrative pocket commissions. I said they as administrative personnel had no enforcement authority. They said they weren't doing enforcement. I said they were going to use the information gathered there to do enforcement so they were doing enforcement and they didn't argue with me.

I told them I can't knowingly participate in criminal activity with them until they disprove the evidence of their criminal activity. I said it violates my religious beliefs to consent with thieves without first proving that they aren't thieves.

If I asked a question, they wouldn't answer so I didn't answer any of their questions. I said I was following their example, because they were the servant and the servant cannot be greater than the master, according to my religious beliefs.

Whenever they asked a question, I used the Jesus approach:  answer questions with more questions.  I asked them to define the words they were using in their question from the Internal Revenue Code. I had the code with me and I offered it to them. They wouldn't do it so I couldn't answer their question without knowing the definition they were presuming or the context. Words like the following they could not define:

1. "promoting"
2. "organization"
3. "Seminars"
4. "Marketing"
5.  "tax"

So I couldn't answer their questions. Agent Gordon pointed to the Great IRS Hoax book and asked me if I wrote the book  and I said: "No."

Mr. Gordon said: "Well who wrote it?"

I said: "God wrote it. He told me what to say. If you don't like what it says, why don't you file a lawsuit against Him!"  They didn't know what to say.  Then they asked if I owned the Family Guardian website domain name.  I said "God owns it and He gave me the money to pay for it.  I'm just his servant."  They again didn't know what to say to that either.

The lawyer said he wasn't going to prosecute me for anything civil or criminal and was just gathering information. I responded with: "Good, now lets get that in writing. I'll scribble it out and you sign the form stating that you waive your right to prosecute me civilly or criminally with any of the information provided here. Will you sign it?"

The lawyer, Richards,  said: "No."

"Well then, YOU'RE A LIAR AND YOU JUST ADMITTED IT!" He was speechless and couldn't defend himself!

They kept trying to ask me questions, and I said they had to answer questions first and that I was following their example.  If they answered my questions first, then I would follow their example and answer their questions.  Note that I didn't say I wouldn't answer their questions, but only specified the conditions under which I would answer them and made it their choice if they wanted to cooperate.  This is a variation of the Notary Protest Method and we explain how it works in section of the Great IRS Hoax book.

They said they were there to protect "taxpayers" so they aren't mislead or hurt. I said that was a noble goal and one of my goals too, and I wanted to help them with that by correcting anything on my website that was inaccurate.   Then I said I wanted to shown them that I was sincerely pursuing the same goals as them in protecting "taxpayers" so I started reading to them the Disclaimer on my website:

"DISCLAIMER: The data on this website is the collaborative experience, contributions, and research of various websites, legal books, tax documents, researchers, associates, attorneys, CPA's, etc. and does not constitute legal advice. These materials have been prepared for educational and informational purposes and are intended for "nontaxpayers" only. If you are a "taxpayer", then instead please consult http://www.irs.gov for educational materials."

This website and the materials on it were prepared for the use of the author only by himself. Any use of the terms "you" or "we recommend" or "you should" or "we" is directed at the author and not other readers. All the author is doing by posting these materials is sharing with others the results of his research and the play book he developed only for use by himself. For instance, the bottom of every page of the Great IRS Hoax book says: "TOP SECRET: For Treasury/IRS Internal Use ONLY (FOUO)". Then in the "Disclaimer" at the beginning of the book, he defines "Treasury" as the "HANSEN Family Department of the Treasury". Consequently, how those materials impact or influence others is of no concern or consequence to him, and no motive may be attributed to any statements by the author that would appear to be directed at third parties, because such statements are actually directed at himself only. How readers use or apply the materials appearing here is entirely their choice and we assume no responsibility for how they act, or fail to act, based on the use of these materials. This approach is no different from that of the federal government, where the term "employee" in the Internal Revenue Code is made to "appear" like it applies to everyone, but in fact it only applies mandatorily to elected or appointed officers of the United States government."

I wasn't nearly finished but after that last one above, they just had to cut me off because it took all the wind out of their sails. They said when they started the meeting that "We just want to find out if there is any reason why we should not prosecute you for abusive tax shelters."  When I had a good answer for them using my Disclaimer statement, suddenly they weren't interested because it destroyed all their ammunition.  I said I don't sell ANYTHING, never have, and never will. I said that they were slandering my character and making me into an intellectual whore who will do or say anything for money by insinuating that I sell anything. They couldn't believe that I don't sell or market anything and that it is all free speech.

Then Agent Gordon pulled out a copy of the page off the Family Guardian website (http://famguardian.org/Media/movie.htm)  offering Marc Lucas' FREE video. Gordon asked me if I sold that video and I said no. I said the video can be viewed for free on the website and I said I wasn't involved in any way whatsoever commercially or financially with the person selling it and that he was just a friend. They wanted to know if I was in the video and I said yes. They pointed to the price of $20 and I said that the address the money is sent to isn't mine and I have no connection with the sale and get no commissions, and that I was only posting the message as a favor to a friend.  That abruptly ended their questions.

The lawyer asked: "What religion are you?" I said "Nondenominational Christian". I said that my work on my website was my method of worshipping my God. I said the First Amendment guarantees me a right to assemble, and that is exactly what I use it for: to collaborate with others. I said the First Amendment also gives me a right to Petition my Government for a Redress of Grievances and that is what I use it for.

I said they are interfering with my Constitutional rights and to expect me to help them is ridiculous, because I would be committing treason against the Constitution. I asked the lawyer if the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were in full force in my case. He said yes. I said "Good, because I took an oath to support and defend it, which means I can't conspire with you now to violate it as my research shows until you can prove I won't be violating it by helping you and giving you the information you want."

Mr. Gordon gave up on me, and passed me on to Ms. Weber, who was handling my tax returns and the outstanding penalties. They wanted to know about my returns. I said they would get that info if on the SECOND day of meetings if they fully cooperated with me the FIRST day. The first day was going to be spent on establishing their jurisdiction and the legality of what they were doing.  I said I filed the returns with the International branch as a Nonresident alien.  Then the collection manager lady (Patricia Medina) asked about my citizenship. She said "You just don't want to support your country, do you?"  I said I do what the Constitution requires of me to support my country because the constitutional model allows the federal government to fund all of its expenditures only with indirect excise taxes on foreign commerce under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the Constitution and that model worked quite well up until 1933, when Roosevelt the Socialists took over.  I said there is no reason we can't return to that model, which is the only lawful way identified in the Constitution for our federal government to fund its operations.

Medina, the Collection Manager, then asked, "Well aren't you a U.S. Citizen?"

I said "No, I'm a 'non-citizen U.S. National' as defined under 8 U.S.C. 1452 and 1408" and I explained what that meant. She asked "Where do you reside?"

I asked: "Can you please define the term 'reside'?"

Medina said: "Where do you physically live?"

I said I live and was born outside of the federal United States and outside of federal jurisdiction so I am a non- citizen U.S. national. She asked if I had filled out my job paperwork saying I was a "U.S. citizen". I said that I had many years ago but since then have taken great pains to correct this false presumption so that all paperwork accurately reflects my true status as a "non-citizen U.S. National". I said my religion doesn't allow me to be a privileged U.S. citizen because receipt of privileges destroy rights. I said my religion doesn't allow me to have a king over me and that I have to govern myself and can't depend on or trust government, but only God.

Then the collection manager, Medina, asked if I was going to pay the penalties. I said the penalties were wrongfully assessed and if they had provided the IMF at the meeting as I had requested in writing beforehand, I could have shown them that. They said if I wasn't going to pay the penalties, then they were going to file a notice of lien. I said they had no authority to do that because I am outside their jurisdiction. They handed me an appeal sheet (which wrongfully identified me as a "taxpayer") and said I had three days to fill it out. I said they weren't authorized to do any collection because I didn't have my collection due process hearing yet. They said I was right and that I would subsequently be afforded a Collection Due Process hearing.

That was pretty much the end of it. Pretty interesting! I think it went very well and they got nothing because they gave nothing. They looked like uncooperative idiots operating in bad faith who didn't want to get anything in exchange for what they were getting. They looked like selfish and ignorant tyrants who evaded discussing or being accountable for any lawful limits on their authority and I have it on tape.

Thanks for all your support, and I'm not worried about the results. I'm taking steps now to protect my assets before the vultures descend.

This event was clearly a fishing expedition, and it went nowhere.  They looked pretty stupid.  Hansen made it very clear during the July 10, 2003 meeting that:

  • He doesn't sell anything, never has, and never will.
  • The Family Guardian website is a free speech and not a commercial speech website.
  • He is not financially connected to anyone, including We the People or Marc Lucas.
  • Everything we do is a free public service and constitutes religious speech and free speech protected by the First Amendment.

As of the writing of this article on July 18, 2003, we have not received any further correspondence from the IRS following the meeting on 7/10/03.  Based on item #4 above, their main goal is to shut down the Family Guardian website by trying to connect it to commercial activity and associating it with an Abusive Tax Shelter.  It's completely ridiculous to say that we do anything with tax shelters.  You must be a "taxpayer" and have a tax liability and "gross income" before tax deductions from "gross income" or shelters of "taxable income" are even relevant, and we have been begging the government for three years now to prove that we fit even one of these three requirements under the Internal Revenue Code.  They have defaulted to our position on many different occasions, which means they have a Nihil Dicit administrative judgment against them pursuant to Fed.Rule.Civ.Proc. 8(d).  Their position is "patently frivolous", illegal, and completely without any legal foundation or merit, to use their own words, because they refuse to justify or defend it.  Anything they do that they can't justify with the law is, by implication, illegal and unlawful, because the federal government is a government of limited and enumerated powers.  EVERYTHING they do must be authorized by a specific law, and the law is the definition and the limitation of their power, according to our Supreme Court.  All other powers, including police powers and legislative jurisdiction, are reserved to the states under the Tenth Amendment and Hansen lives in one of those states.

26 U.S.C. 6671(b) also identifies the term "person" for the purposes of 26 U.S.C. 6700 as an employee of a corporation or a partnership, and we clearly don't fit that description.  Natural persons such as us aren't even covered by 26 U.S.C. 6700.  Only "organizations", are covered, which is what the term "person" is defined as in IRC 6671(b).  We don't advise anyone, don't cater to "taxpayers", and we certainly don't tell people how to get exemptions of "gross income" or "taxable income", because they don't have any to begin with!  The IRS is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in our case because they want to plug the dam before it collapses and the American public learns the truth about their Pozzi scheme and RICO organized crime syndicate.

To read more about persecution of this website, read the We the People article on our experiences by clicking here.

Click here to find out why the IRS is wasting their time trying to shut down this website and why we are outside of their jurisdiction.